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Post by Gaius Julius Caesar on Jan 19, 2020 17:40:52 GMT
We can have a second front, it's just that I don't want the Axis to be outnumbered the moment they start the game with. I'm reading about the activity that took place in '42 and it's seems promising. I was thinking of starting in '40 but '42 looks good as well, the Allies'd be trying to open up that front in Algeria and the Germans are ready for El Alamain in Egypt. Though the issue that rises again is, do we want to go with the historical number of divisions or do we just shovel as many as we can? Shovelling means that we can even create units of our own (like Germany raises eight armored units instead of six) and with the historical number it'll be ofcourse less units, so less territory one would want to take. It matters more to know what the battle mechanics looks like, and I don't mean just the dice. I mean how an attack is permitted in the RP. And ofc the fog of war, how would it effect the attack (or not having an effect)? Geographic impacts? I mean more than defender's advantage but also distance involved. That sort of larger impacts on gameplay. Like where our headquarters are would have an effect, perhaps? The person who is defending on his own home turf would have a shorter trip to his hq compared to the attacker who has a very long supply line. I assume that we're going to be generals? Or we're going to be the countries? Those kind of things are kinda important to figure out. You make a lot of good points. We'd also have to kind of be aware of what's happening in Europe, but that brings a whole other playing field into the game. I mean one of the main reasons that the African front is extremely important is control of the Mediterranean, which Italy craves. So, I don't think we can do Africa without acknowledging the naval campaigns throughout the Mediterranean Sea. Even still, depending on the year '40 or '42, the Soviet Union would play a big role in the strength of Germany too. I'm not trying to make this more complex, but I just think there's a lot of factors to be considered. |
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Post by Tolbethessar on Jan 19, 2020 17:52:54 GMT
If we're generals, would the personality conflict within the commanding staff have a RP effect? Or probably just optional.
I can imagine somebody writing sorta of a diary:
Dear diary; today is the 48th day since I've been deployed to the front. I hate it here. The sand is endless. Endless I tell you! Sand, sand, sand and more sand, and even more sand everywhere -- including some personal places that I would rather to avoid disclosing. It's quite painful in both physical and mental realms. It's not just the irradiating feeling that grates on your nerves, but on top of that, the sand makes you drag your feet along the ground, and yet there's no solid ground to speak of! It's all loose, unstable sand that just sucks your feet in and then squeeze painfully on your ankles when you're trying to put weight upon them.
It would be all so much easier to put up with if I didn't also have to contend with the weak minded fools around my person on top of the natural elements. I do not comprehend as to why they insist on being so insufferable. My fellow officers were grossly ignorant of the finer arts of waging a war. They only care where their water, food, and cigarettes comes from. Excuse me, that's not quite an accurate statement. They do have a secondary concern, but it's still subordinated to the primacy of their gluttony however. It would've been a pleasant thought if my peers, my fellow officers were at least partially admirable in their attentiveness toward their enlisted soldiers, but alas! The men who were entrusted into their charge has only a brief appealing quality that entract their small minds. The fact that those men are easily compulsed into carrying out their orders. Clearly, those who were commissioned by the Empire has forsaken the higher and more noble calling of cherishing those who are entrusted to be in their care. No! They only delight in lording over the masses of men as if the Empire were appointing them as petty kings and the men as their peasants.
I've already given up trying to bring this matter to the attention of our commanding officer. It serve no one any good as one can clearly see that he is a man of disgustingly meager cerebral resources. While standing ankle-deep in the sand, he dribbles his booze all over the boots and the moisturized sand then sticks to them in the utterly most stomach-turning disgusting way. I did consider cleaning his boots but I'm an commissioned officer of the army! Yet I cannot bring myself down to the lowly and bestial crudeness of my peers in forcing one of my men to bear what I myself would not bear. It's far too degrading upon a man's soul and I shan't be the one who forces such degradation upon him!
Perhaps things would be better if I shot my commanding officer for being the abominable man-child? But what if headquarters ends up assigning us yet a worse devil of a colonel promoted through the ranks by mere merits of his connections to the higherups? But the way things are so downright miserable here in this sandy hades, I cannot but help think about the distinct possibility that the Empire has discovered an excellent dumping ground for the worst dregs (and mistakenly included me somehow in a bureaucratic error), and thus it follows that the absolute worst of the worst were already disposed first, and then only the next dregs of slightly less dreadful quality were considered for the deployment to this front. If I shot my boss, it's highly doubtful that they would have sufficient knowledge of what had transpired, but yet I wouldn't be rewarded for such valiant efforts to restore the glory of the Empire's army. And without due proper recognition, I wouldn't be promoted. The headquarters would send in a replacement beside myself, no doubt about that. Yes, I'm sure of that. But on the other hand, I would be endowed with the lightening and so sweet release from the present only to be burdened by a slightly more evolved specimen of an officer. What such a pleasant thought!
Maybe with this positive thinking, I can sleep a bit better tonight even if the sand gets into my tent again. Good night, diary.
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 19, 2020 18:17:09 GMT
What I've been reading on even right now is the British Eighth Army, and is component units of course. However, I have started reading on other aspects (if you call it) as well of the game like supply lines, comms and the rest that is to come. What I do agree with Gaius Julius Caesar and Tolbethessar is that yes, players will have two options that they can use when it comes to generals. 1. They can either simulate the real generals that fought these battles or 2. They can make their own generals out of scratch, giving a background of the man, his strengths, weaknesses and the unit he's commanding (naval/infantry/armored etc). I'm thinking something like that one RP me and Dr. Hendrei Gromsinger were in where we played as generals and had our units we controlled, it was hosted by tpc BTW. The other thing is yes there won't be just land warfare being waged on but also naval warfare (the typical Italian Regia Marina vs the British Mediterranean Fleet). As much information and knowledge that I have about land warfare, not even half of it do I have about naval warfare (but I do know important battles like Taranto). As much as we expand on the ideas of this game, the more massive it becomes. So I'll be needing feedback from youse, and of course I'll keep you informed on as to what have I been up to as well. No, I'm not totally relying on you guys in case someone is thinking that  just that the RP seems very promising, but it's also needing a lot of planning |
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Post by Gaius Julius Caesar on Jan 19, 2020 19:44:54 GMT
What I've been reading on even right now is the British Eighth Army, and is component units of course. However, I have started reading on other aspects (if you call it) as well of the game like supply lines, comms and the rest that is to come. What I do agree with Gaius Julius Caesar and Tolbethessar is that yes, players will have two options that they can use when it comes to generals. 1. They can either simulate the real generals that fought these battles or 2. They can make their own generals out of scratch, giving a background of the man, his strengths, weaknesses and the unit he's commanding (naval/infantry/armored etc). I'm thinking something like that one RP me and Dr. Hendrei Gromsinger were in where we played as generals and had our units we controlled, it was hosted by tpc BTW. The other thing is yes there won't be just land warfare being waged on but also naval warfare (the typical Italian Regia Marina vs the British Mediterranean Fleet). As much information and knowledge that I have about land warfare, not even half of it do I have about naval warfare (but I do know important battles like Taranto). As much as we expand on the ideas of this game, the more massive it becomes. So I'll be needing feedback from youse, and of course I'll keep you informed on as to what have I been up to as well. No, I'm not totally relying on you guys in case someone is thinking that just that the RP seems very promising, but it's also needing a lot of planning Whatever help you need, I'm happy to provide. I know that this doesn't go to show for much, but everyone did enjoy my WWI RP when it happened like a year or two ago...  |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 19, 2020 19:49:20 GMT
What I've been reading on even right now is the British Eighth Army, and is component units of course. However, I have started reading on other aspects (if you call it) as well of the game like supply lines, comms and the rest that is to come. What I do agree with Gaius Julius Caesar and Tolbethessar is that yes, players will have two options that they can use when it comes to generals. 1. They can either simulate the real generals that fought these battles or 2. They can make their own generals out of scratch, giving a background of the man, his strengths, weaknesses and the unit he's commanding (naval/infantry/armored etc). I'm thinking something like that one RP me and Dr. Hendrei Gromsinger were in where we played as generals and had our units we controlled, it was hosted by tpc BTW. The other thing is yes there won't be just land warfare being waged on but also naval warfare (the typical Italian Regia Marina vs the British Mediterranean Fleet). As much information and knowledge that I have about land warfare, not even half of it do I have about naval warfare (but I do know important battles like Taranto). As much as we expand on the ideas of this game, the more massive it becomes. So I'll be needing feedback from youse, and of course I'll keep you informed on as to what have I been up to as well. No, I'm not totally relying on you guys in case someone is thinking that just that the RP seems very promising, but it's also needing a lot of planning Whatever help you need, I'm happy to provide. I know that this doesn't go to show for much, but everyone did enjoy my WWI RP when it happened like a year or two ago... We could coordinate it however you like. PM or directly here. I'm happy to help and share any information that is useful to the game. At present my focus is on supply lines and unit strengths, however (as I have a tendency to read things very fast) I've read a good chunk of the article about the Battle of Malta too . Edit: Quick stop-by here to let y'all know that the aftermath section of this article lists in detail year-by-year the issues the Axis faced in the Campaign. I've yet to find something detailing the issues the Allies faced. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Desert_campaign |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 20, 2020 9:43:08 GMT
The Germans in Africa never had any SS units under them but the Italians had Blackshirt units (that were the equivalent of handpicked diehard Fascists). Four of these units were in Africa and in total seven were created. The question is, do we want to scrap them totally or should we reskin them as normal infantry units? Detail about these units: www.wikizero.com/en/BlackshirtsExample of one such unit: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_CC.NN._Division_%2221_Aprile%22 |
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Post by Tolbethessar on Jan 20, 2020 10:03:11 GMT
The Germans in Africa never had any SS units under them but the Italians had Blackshirt units (that were the equivalent of handpicked diehard Fascists). Four of these units were in Africa and in total seven were created. The question is, do we want to scrap them totally or should we reskin them as normal infantry units? Detail about these units: www.wikizero.com/en/BlackshirtsExample of one such unit: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_CC.NN._Division_%2221_Aprile%22If it's merely a question of balancing the numbers, I don't see why Italy shouldn't have supplemental infantry units to replace those units. But what's the plan for having action in a battle that a player would take? I don't mean to lead things constantly back to the broader side, but I really want this RP to have more a solid feeling of where things ought be. What does it feels to participate in your RP? What kind of stuff I gotta watch out for? What kind of stuff I gotta try to balance against each other? Maybe any of those 3 questions helps you with the design, I hope so. |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 20, 2020 20:30:31 GMT
In response to Tolbethessar's question about what should a player/general watch out for? 1. Geography.
You're in the middle of the world's most unforgiving and second-driest desert. The Qattara Depression for example is a massive depression in Egypt that is impassable for it is almost completely a barren wasteland full of salt pans and salt marshes.
Just to put into comparison, this thing is as big as Lake Ontario and twice as big as Lebanon!
Similarly, further south in Egypt you encounter the Great Sand Sea. Completely unforgiving to anyone who stumbles into it, spanning some 650 km North to South and 300 km East to West.
2. Supply Lines.
While it maybe an interesting idea to attack the enemy until his units are thoroughly destroyed, in reality it's not that easy. Field Supply Depots/FSD (I'm looking more into this tomorrow) are necessary. They are required per division and are a vital means of keeping a whole division well-supplied.
To put into comparison, a German tank division required 350 tons of supplies on a DAILY BASIS in order to be fully operational (minus the manpower and machinery of course).
3. Weather.
Again, being in the desert comes with some disadvantages as well. Sand storms will be frequent and will hamper military activity to a good degree. They occur every March to May and the temperature tanks to +45°C
Not just sandstorms though, but rains as well (like the Tunisian Wet Season which makes roads become extremely muddy)
There are more things as well that are coming down the pipeline including other things a general needs to be aware of, as usual I'll keep y'all updated. |
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Post by Gaius Julius Caesar on Jan 20, 2020 20:50:55 GMT
I think I'm a little confused about game mechanics. One nice thing about most RPs is that most of this stuff that players account for when writing their turns. If you, as Global Moderator, take charge of factoring this into turns personally, then the gameplay and regulation become way more challenging. I just don't want this to be too complicated for the players or you. |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 20, 2020 21:00:18 GMT
I think I'm a little confused about game mechanics. One nice thing about most RPs is that most of this stuff that players account for when writing their turns. If you, as Global Moderator, take charge of factoring this into turns personally, then the gameplay and regulation become way more challenging. I just don't want this to be too complicated for the players or you. I don't want it to be too much complicated either. Say a British Corps is manning the frontier, unless attacked it's supply lines would remain stable. Also, weather events would be rare, as being in a desert is punishing the men enough already. The geography too would come into play when the units are moving, of courses you can't just move a whole mountain to cause havoc as GM now can you? The primary focus would always be to win the war, these things would be secondary |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 22, 2020 7:35:32 GMT
I've scrapped the Intelligence and Fog of War because it'd require making two separate maps (one for Axis, one for Allies) and a lot of dice-rolling and confusing mechanics just to engage enemy units. It would have made the game needlessly time-consuming, confusing and quite frankly, boring. Now to the biggest question that I've somehow still haven't answered yet: Frederick the Great, do we play as nations, or generals? If we are generals, what units do we control? 1. Will Navies be involved? Yes (but I'm developing that part as we speak) 2. Will Air Forces be involved? Yes (I've developed ~50% of this concept as well) 3. What about Army units? Well, below is the detailed and as-simple-as-it-can-be answer An Army player controls a "Corps", thus being a General/"Corps Commander". Under him (are typically) four divisions, two of infantry and two of armor (unless you're controlling a smaller nation like the ANZACS or South Africa, then you get two infantry and one armored unit because these nations can't afford a massive Army). This is the distribution of the Axis: 3 Italian Corps = 3 Players 1 Italo-German Fighter-Bomber Group = 1 Player 3 German Corps = 3 Players 1 Italo-German Naval Group = 1 Player Total = 8 Players For the Allies it's the same thing: 3 British Corps = 3 Players 1 Desert Air Force (DAF) Commander 1 Allied Fleet Commander 1 American Corps Commander 1 ANZAC Corps Commander 1 South African/Free French Corps Commander (haven't decided yet between SA and FF units) Total = 8 Players If we don't have enough people playing we can skip the air and fleet commanders (and if even less people then we'll just keep it 2 Italians and 2 Germans vs 2 Brits, 1 French and 1 American). Edit: once I get done with Air Force and Navy I'll move to the Battle Mechanics which is another concept I have to work on |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 25, 2020 19:56:57 GMT
Latest development. Supply mechanics.
A Corps (comprising four divisions) can go only for two months in combat before it runs out of all kinds of supplies. Once supplies start to fall below the 50% level, the unit will have to roll higher dice to compensate for it's low fuel/ammo/food etc. A unit cannot function after it has reached 20% supply level.
A division spends it's supplies this way (applies to combat only):
Two months = 100% supplies consumed
One month = 50% supplies consumed
Two weeks = 25% supplies consumed
How to solve this problem?
There are three ways you can do this:
Resupply in Cities
Cities can resupply multiple units at once. For example: Bardia in Egypt can supply one division, but Mersa Matruh can supply a whole corps. Tripoli and Cairo can supply three corps max.
Supply Dumps
A supply dump can be built in a week in a combat zone, suspending all combat operations at that time, however once built it can resupply one division with ease for two months.
Aerial Resupply
Air units can drop supplies but they are unreliable as wind can blow packages off-course. Four can be ordered in a turn, each resupplying only a brigade.
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 26, 2020 13:59:12 GMT
BATTLE MECHANICS:
A "combat turn" takes place when the belligerents have located the other and one side wishes to fight and expel the other. Combat turns are three months long.
How to engage enemies in combat?
Roll four dice, the base requirement is 15 to win. However, terrain and manpower may affect combat as well.
If a side has double the manpower committed to an operation, it's dice requirement is lowered to 12.
Example: Germans with 80000 men face the South Africans with 40000 near Sollum, Germans now need a 12 to win.
If a belligerent controls a major city like Benghazi or Alexandria, it has a +4 defense bonus.
If a belligerent controls a mountain or an escarpment, it has a +3 defense bonus.
If a belligerent controls a hill pass, it has a +2 defense bonus.
If a belligerent controls an oasis, it has a +1 defense bonus.
Building a supply dump outside of a major city (like Tobruk) lowers the requirement for the attackers by 2.
Now the only thing I have to plan are the Naval Units
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Post by Gaius Julius Caesar on Jan 26, 2020 14:59:00 GMT
I definitely approve of the supply consumption, especially since that was one of the main reasons that Germany lost in Africa! Nice job! |
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Post by Frederick the Great on Jan 26, 2020 15:01:59 GMT
I definitely approve of the supply consumption, especially since that was one of the main reasons that Germany lost in Africa! Nice job! Thanks ! It is the result of a lot of reading and searching the internet. What about the battle mechanics? Should I adjust them or keep them the way they are? |
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just that the RP seems very promising, but it's also needing a lot of planning 