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Post by tpc on Feb 18, 2019 14:18:37 GMT
We will not negotiate Korea. Normal negotiations will occur, though we will have a France and UK sub-mechanic: -Both sides can influence France and UK in negotiations.
-Currently, both sides have 0 influence to France due to the diplomatic blunder by the US during the last turn. -US and SV have +2 influence to UK. -Each nation has 3 actions freely split between UK and France, either: 1. Secret negotiations: increases influence to one nation (choose between France or UK), +1 for each roll above 3 (+1 for 4, +2 for 5, +3 for 6). 2. Diplomatic humiliation: lowers the influence of one nation to both UK and France, same mechanic as above. (ex. one can do 3 negotiations and 0 humiliation or vice versa, or 2 negotiations and 1 humiliation, so forth)
Happy negotiating. The USSR will not use any influence actions though it may speak in negotiations.
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Post by Frederick the Great on Feb 21, 2019 16:21:10 GMT
First Action by South Vietnam: Rolling for the Humiliation of North Vietnam ( Santa Anna ) EtptSCt0Second Action by South Vietnam. Same as above: Third Action by South Vietnam. Same as above: NV's relationship with France and UK is -4 right now. ···
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Post by Europyrealm on Feb 23, 2019 16:46:20 GMT
Officers at Beijing decide to negotiate with UK regarding China's influence to make some deal for peace. Chinese governments have no wish to humiliate any nation
1st attempt: O9HJpw5Q 2nd attempt:
3rd attempt:
The method of Chinese's influence to U.K. is roughly +3.
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Post by Santa Anna on Feb 24, 2019 22:22:30 GMT
Having been slammed at the conference table by the South Vietnamese, Pham Van Dong and the delegation try to enact revenge and lower South Vietnam's standing.
Roll 1:
aAugmJna
Roll 2:
Roll 3:
··
Sadly, despite their best efforts, the North Vietnamese are not able to affect the opinions of the UK and France.
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Post by Frederick the Great on Feb 25, 2019 14:37:51 GMT
The South Vietnamese under the leadership of General Cao Van Vien (the most capable General of the State of Vietnam) are informed only hours before the talks can begin that the troops that had been stationed at Thanh Hoa and Nghe Anh have come under attack, but after losing some ground have managed to withstand and repulse further enemy assaults into the region.
When his turn of speaking comes, he surprises everyone by informing them that the North has incurred losses onto the Southern Army and that "such behavior of the North should be condemned when we all had initially gathered here to talk about peace".
He also makes it clear that the provinces of Nghe Anh and Thanh Hoa and everything below it must be added to a future Monarchist State of Vietnam if the country goes down the "Korean Route".
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Post by Tolbethessar on Feb 25, 2019 14:59:34 GMT
USA
Trapnell angrily lectures France publicly on its incompetence and prior warnings about critical failures to respond properly to the communist threat within Indochina "I told you so!"(then roll for a secret negotiation where USA offers to step in and repair the Inodchinese situation on the behalf of French-American ties while France may evacuate and forget all about the ugly, ugly mess) eFrzxK7j A 4 is rolled
Also, Eisenhower repeats his prior offer of Atoms for Peace (in private to France), as a tantalizing offer to restore relations. Tons of Highly Enriched Uranium is on the table (or rather under the table this time). The one in Turns Thread is for diplomatic relations, this one here is for the influence mechanism.
A 6 is rolled
Eisenhower proclaims at the conference that it's rather dubious of PRC to be allowed a seat at the conference due to their recent history of oppressing their own Chinese. Not to mention that Mao Zedong had taken over the reins by force during the Chinese Civil War, in essence a warlord in domination of a nation-state. Also, any proposal coming from Beijing regarding elections in Vietnam is questionable at best considering the history of sketchy tally counting in electing their warlord into power of the government. Therefore, the "people's republic" of China isn't quite truly for the people, neither was it a republic in the first place. As the president of the United States of America, Eisenhower recommends that the Geneva Conference put the Beijing representatives at an arms' reach away from the table. Rolling for humiliation of PRC
A 6 is rolled
Overall effect: Americans' influence on France increases by +4, PRC's influence on UK+France is lowered by -3.
Feeling rather violated by North Vietnam's blatant and flagrant violation of the intent and spirit of this Geneva Conference was to come to a peaceful understanding of the situation (granted, a war is likely to be inevitable, but never mind that. it's PUBLIC RELATIONS TIME!!), and clearly North Vietnam isn't interested in neither partitioning or legitimate elections. Trapnell decries the crimes against humanity being done in this situation. USA stands behind the true government of Vietnam being in the hands of Bao Dai.··
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Post by Santa Anna on Feb 25, 2019 16:11:22 GMT
The North Vietnamese delegation, led by Pham Van Dong (Deputy Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam), defends the attacks against VNA forces in Thanh Hoa and Nghe An provinces as a defensive measure against future VNA incursions against crucial North Vietnamese territory. With the seizure of the two provinces, the VNA would be stationed less than 160 kilometers (100 miles) from Hanoi and Haiphong, which would render them highly vulnerable to attack, which is an unacceptable risk for the Viet Minh. The delegation declares that it will accept elections to unify Vietnam, but that they should be supervised by non-aligned nations with no stake in the election. Furthermore, while the North Vietnamese are willing to accept the division of Vietnam if necessary, it insists on the 17th Parallel as the boundary between the two Vietnams, and the immediate removal of all VNA troops before discussions continue.
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Post by Tolbethessar on Feb 25, 2019 16:18:27 GMT
Trapnell counters, "Negative, the deliberate attacks on those two provinces were a power grab, and an intentional oppression of the locales. No, if we ever comes to discussing a partition of the Vietnamese population of French Indochina (Obviously, Laos and Cambodia are partitioned from French Indochina into their own countries), THEN we should consider the pre-conference situation." Leaning forward, he slams his fist on the tabletop, "To do otherwise ignores the common sense practice of holding oneself in restraint of civility rather than barbaric landgrabbing!"
He then points to Pham Van Dong, "You are in employ of a warlord, Ho Chi Minh, rather than in the name of the Vietnamese people of Hanoi and Haiphong which you hold in hostage for your superior's warlordism! So then... how can we accept a solution that legitimatize a criminal's ascendancy into politics through fraudulent elections?"
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Post by Frederick the Great on Feb 25, 2019 16:20:11 GMT
The Southern Delegation quickly counters by reminding everyone of the fact that at present the entity known as "Vietnam" is actually "the Empire of Vietnam" with Bao Dai being it's Emperor and within his realm his forces (the only legal Armed Forces of the nation, The Vietnamese National Army (VNA)) are entitled to move freely within his state as they may deem necessary.
The delegation demands that (again) Nghe An and Thanh Hoa will be and have always been a part of Monarchist Vietnam and that "these provinces are crucial to the future of the Vietnamese Empire".
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Post by Santa Anna on Feb 25, 2019 20:21:57 GMT
The North Vietnamese counter the Southerners by reminding everyone of a simple fact: The North Vietnamese government and the Viet Minh existed well before the State of Vietnam, and have been fighting the oppressors of the Vietnamese people since World War 2. The State of Vietnam, on the other hand, is a puppet state controlled by the French imperialists and led by the same puppet emperor who had been under the control of both the French and Japanese. The North Vietnamese are the ones with the true mandate to rule the country, not the French neo-colonial state to the south, with the heroic Viet Minh as the true army and liberating force of Vietnam, and as such deserve to rule over the entire country. However, if a peace must be imposed, the provinces of Thanh Hoa and Nghe An must be an nonnegotiable part of the true Vietnamese state, free from the grip of French and American rule.
And to the American imperialists, the delegation poses some questions: How could our move have been a power grab when the VNA moved troops there first, in an obvious effort to reduce North Vietnam's power and land and render it much more vulnerable to being conquered? Why do you call us landgrabbers and not them, when they made the first move?
Pointing his own finger back at Trapnell, Pham Van Dong accuses the Americans of seeking to be the new imperial masters of the Vietnamese people, and the "State of Vietnam" as being the false state given the appearance of legitimacy by the Americans and French in their desperate attempt to subjugate the Vietnamese people once again, denying Vietnam the liberty of uniting under its own terms.
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Post by Europyrealm on Feb 26, 2019 17:02:15 GMT
In order to issue a plain and humble negotiation:
Chinese government and military leaders contact North Vietnam regarding certain reasons France is opposing North Vietnam over resistance to give up NV's rights and operations to France's reign. Few years after Republic of China's collapsing, CCP wishes to offer alternative options other than peace, such as living resources (metals, oil, living stock) PRC is widely open to North Vietnam's opinions and preferences.
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Post by Frederick the Great on Feb 28, 2019 14:31:49 GMT
South Vietnam rejects any kind of a division of Vietnam unless Nghe An and Thanh Hoa aren't a part of a future Saigon-controlled government
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Post by Tolbethessar on Mar 3, 2019 0:54:13 GMT
Out of Character: This took me a while to do it right. Thanks for your patience (if you're feeling patient, that is). Also... expect some patriotic flag waving and the sort in this post, btw. The American advisor glared at the North Vietnamese's accusation, "Excuse me? The United States of America has in no way ever wish to deny the Vietnamese people their basic rights. In fact if you hadn't noticed, we have urged France to change their course and they refused to do so. Thus leading themselves to their utter failure at Diem Bien Phu."
"And how dare you implies that the Viet Minh criminal organization had been a legitimate governing body long before the State of Vietnam had been brought forth into existence!" Pressing his point further, Trapnell smiled, "Surely you jest? Why would the length of a rulership by a warlord mean something to the nature of his regime in any way? No, those two can be quite independent of each other so easily. And yet you wish to slander Americans, we the ones who fought so hard to prop and uphold the free world everywhere in World War 2?"
"Allow me to remind you the long history of Americans willing and selflessly giving themselves to a cause of democracy against tyranny. Firstly, you mentioned the Japanese and the Vichy French. While you may have fought with them, so did we (along with the Free French) in 1942 and onward to the end of that war. We even contributed more to the liberation of people all over the world from the Axis fascists, more than you can pretend to claim for yourselves in your petty realm." Continuing, Trapnell asks, "Imagine a terrorist accusing us of being pro-imperialistic. Do you even know our history? Long before you had fought for independence from a colonizing power, India had strived first. But long before India had broken free from the British, Latin America all over, they all had broken free from the Spanish Empire. But there's more before that, before the Spanish-speaking world had become free, Haiti had rebelled and fought free from France's grip earlier. But there's more yet still before that... Before India, before Latin America, and even before Haiti... Before all else had... We the Thirteen American colonies split apart from our monarch across the sea. Do you understand that we are the very first decolonized nation in the world, and we are in fact very much anti-imperialistic?"
"Yes, this is our vision for the wide whole world. Colonies free from foreign oppression and free from tyranny, whether it be fascistic tyranny or it be communistic tyranny. People should be pursuing their basic human rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness."
Gasping from talking so much, Trapnell brings it all back to the Indochinese region, "Ah, well back to this... Pham Van Dong, I don't think it's hardly fair of you to demand that Bao Dai forces his people to depart from Nghe An and Thanh Hoa when they were simply already there. Your Viet Minh were obviously attacking the troops of the Vietnamese Nationalist Army's posts. In fact your invasion was happening after the battle of Dien Bien Phu and the start of the Geneva Conference. You shouldn't accuse the army of landgrabbing. They have an obligation to protect the remnants of their government in Hanoi. The people there still resists and they are still protected by the French and Vietnamese armies as of right now. Don't forget that Hanoi and Hapihong hasn't fallen to the Viet Minh terror rule yet." He ends with shaking his finger, "No, no."
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Post by Tolbethessar on Mar 3, 2019 1:16:10 GMT
Separate post for the proposed resolution to the 1954 Geneva Conference
To start... The French must withdraw 100% from everywhere in Indochina and the surrounding China This should happen regardless if we have a untied nationwide election occurring or a partition between Vietnam and the Viet Minh. We all agree on this, no?
First Proposal Outline (an United Vietnam) 1. The leading criminals of terrorist organizations, such as Viet Minh who had been perpetuating the legitimacy myth of warlords & thugs, should be arrested and placed into the custody of the government of the Vietnamese people. Also don't forget Viet Minh's crimes against the Lao and the Cambodians, while of a lesser scale were still pretty bad. 2. The Chinese has a long history of manipulating & ruling over the Vietnamese in thousands of years. This needs to end, so the PRC should withdraw their advisors from the region entirely lest they fall back into the temptation of oppressing the Vietnamese and the others again now that the Japanese aren't invading neither China nor Indochina. 3. Three countries are divided from the former area of French Indochina: Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. 4. Each one of them hold their own general election under the supervision of an international peacekeeping organization (the United Nations).
Second Proposal Outline (a divided Vietnam), 1. The Viet Minh must withdraw 100% from all non-Vietnamese portions of French Indochina (Laos and Cambodia), never to reenter and cause harm on either citizens or their visitors in those two respective areas. 2. Laos and Cambodia have their own nation-states, elections and so forth. 3. In order to peacefully part the Vietnam area into two states where the terrorist organization will form one of the governments... The Viet Minh must depart from Nghe An + Thanh Hoa and the provinces south of those two. They must also not attempt to reenter the triangular area of control surrounding Hanoi and Hapihong. The State of Vietnam will leave the terrorists alone in their own area of control. 4. Non-Vietnamese people must be permitted to leave the countries unobstructed without any interference by the two governments. And the Vietnamese population must be allowed to evacuate to either areas of their own preference. The Viet Minh and the State of Vietnam cannot prevent the people from moving out across the border in 1 year.
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Post by Frederick the Great on Mar 3, 2019 6:51:48 GMT
The Southern Delegation immediately accepts all terms of the Second Proposal and notify their American allies as well.
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