Ceasefire Negotiations

[Carlos III]

Zhou Enlai chuckles and says,"Might I point out that the ROC had begged you Americans for help in the war? And what did the United States do? Nothing. And you say the ROC is legitimate. If this is what it means to be a US ally, I feel sorry for all of them."

Zhu De motions for Zhou to stop. He stares at Dulles intently, and says "As Comrade Lin already said, we are only there to contain the war. The corp we deployed initially were there to give more time for civilians and our own soldiers to withdraw from areas close to the frontline, to which they have done successfully. The PVA was to prevent the war from reaching the important and populated areas around Hanoi. Even then, South Vietnam brought war into Hanoi. We have no more reason to believe that giving up any land in North Vietnam will contain the war.
Nobody said you could not intervene, my dear Dulles, if you can rationalize sending your boys to bomb and destroy all of China, whose people and territory you claim belongs to the ROC."

[Frederick the Great]

"You're here to contain the war? Oh really? Then tell me how successful was that? And how 100 more J-5 Shenyang Fighters will do anything whatsoever to keep that "containment" going"? Speaks up Ngo Dinh Diem.

"You're blinded by your political agenda, and you're the sole force that is keeping the unification of Vietnam from being a reality" he says while staring Zhu De. "Your "Army" you say? More like a lackluster militia without any insight of what's really going on on the battlefield, has been occupying our cities and killing everyone who opposes them there as if this was the People's Republic of China. But soon it will all come to an end, and we'll see to it. The suffering of our people under Communism, is going to be over very soon. And all of you will pay for it!"

[Tolbethessar]

Oct 29, 2019 10:28:12 GMT Carlos III said:

Zhou Enlai chuckles and says,"Might I point out that the ROC had begged you Americans for help in the war? And what did the United States do? Nothing. And you say the ROC is legitimate. If this is what it means to be a US ally, I feel sorry for all of them."

Zhu De motions for Zhou to stop. He stares at Dulles intently, and says "As Comrade Lin already said, we are only there to contain the war. The corp we deployed initially were there to give more time for civilians and our own soldiers to withdraw from areas close to the frontline, to which they have done successfully. The PVA was to prevent the war from reaching the important and populated areas around Hanoi. Even then, South Vietnam brought war into Hanoi. We have no more reason to believe that giving up any land in North Vietnam will contain the war.
Nobody said you could not intervene, my dear Dulles, if you can rationalize sending your boys to bomb and destroy all of China, whose people and territory you claim belongs to the ROC."

"It was your prior position of yesteryear," Dulles said, casually handwaving it all, "I understand if your position has subtly changed according to strategic concerns. I hardly could blame you for our position does have strategic concerns that requires us to adjust across time too. I'm being reasonable."

A quick motion of hand is made in an attempt to notify Diem that he needs to cool down his hot temper and be rational, a brief word spoken, "No reason to be vindictive at a ceasefire talk."

"But you understand that being logical and reasonable applies in here as well," Dulles continues speaking to Zhu, and points out, "The fact still remains true, you open up a whole new dimension to this situation by bungling it badly. Your rationalization of warfare is going to lead you down a road that you might regret taking. If we must fight, we are well prepared to pay up the costs and back a new phase in the Chinese Civil War in addition to the Vietnamese Civil War."

"And please don't tell me that you're merely assisting. You've gotten too involved to wash your hands off quickly now." Dulles scoffed, "Hanoi is 100% within the borders of Vietnam itself. It's almost like I would be protesting that you're 'invading' Foochow* which is clearly within the borders of your occupied territory of China. A bit absurd to make that claim about Hanoi, really."

*Foochow = Fuzhou, a formerly British treaty port in Southeastern China

"Again, I will reiterate the same clear objective that needs to be put into discussion here," Dulles following up further on Zhu's comments, "Vietnam bleeds because it remains partially occupied by a terrorist organization that is being funded by you. This needs to brought to a conclusion, an ending to the bloodshed if you will. Ho Chi Minh really should submit his followers to the government and cede control of the northern one-eighth that remains ungoverned by the Nation-State of Vietnam. It's the last part left."

[Frederick the Great]

Diem settles down in his seat as he realises he's being very aggressive for a "peace negotiation" but reiterates his demand. "Understandable, but, our point remains. In order for any Unification to happen it is necessary that all Chinese soldiers must be removed from Vietnamese terr..."

As he's about to complete his sentence he's interrupted by an aide who (in the midst of the heated argument quietly walked in without anyone noticing him) gives him a paper saying that the Russians (Victor Katz) have moved an unknown number of men from China into Cao Bang, NV just recently. Diem as well as Nhu and Vien, sitting to his left and right are stunned after reading this, as they had thought the USSR had abandoned NV.

Diem quickly passes the paper to Dulles, letting the Americans know too what the Communists have been up to as he looks toward the Soviet delegation that's still sitting silently and says "We thought that only the Chinese were present in North Vietnam, but you people made quite an entrance. Now, are you going to explain why you did this, or are you too going to repeat the same rhetoric they've been repeating?"

[Victor Katz]

The Soviet delegation arrives, just a tad bit late. Andrei Gromyko, the Minister of Foreign Affairs leades the delegation. Marshal Govorov and Marshal Vasilevsky also makes his way to Neuchâtel.

Gromyko apologizes for being late; Govorov and Vasilevsky both had matters to attend to. He then sits down to his seat, quietly, and tries to listen what the Capitalists have to say.

[Santa Anna]

While the South Vietnamese delegation is busy making a nuisance of itself and the Soviet delegation is busy doing absolutely nothing, both Les receive an urgent note from home. The damned Southerners had the nerve to launch an attack against Hanoi while they professed their intentions for peace, no matter how flawed it was. The very nerve!

Just barely containing his fury, Le Duan rises and addresses Diem: "We have just received word that you backstabbers launched an attack on Hanoi while you flattered all of us into assembling here to try and reach a peace. What is wrong with you?"

[Frederick the Great]

"What is wrong with US? We have the same question with you and them!" Diem seeing an enraged Le Duan responds with an equal amount of rage pointing at him and the Soviets that had just sat down

"You thought that you could ask for more Communist reinforcement and we wouldn't know? You thought shovelling a hundred thousand more men will be completely unnoticed by anyone? We had agreed to a ceasefire because we didn't want any more of that war any longer, until these Russians came in my country uninvited!"

[Victor Katz]

Govorov calmly replied, trying to sound as cultured as he could. He didn't want to sound like Diem and Le Duan, who was clearly out of their tempers.

"The Soviet reinforcements are stationed; They are nowhere near the front. And must I remind the South Vietnamese delegation about who started the whole chaos in Indochina? And the last time I checked, Cao Bang belongs to our Northern Vietnamese comrades. I do not see anything wrong with I stationing 100k of our Red Army in our allies' lands."

[Frederick the Great]

"The sheer amount of misinformation you're spreading is very dangerous for your health, friend. Legally the State of Vietnam owns all of Vietnam and thus without our consent you have stationed your units in our territory. That was something that we didn't appreciate one bit and forced us in dealing with these men militarily". Nhu replied, making sure Diem doesn't get to talk anymore for a good while.

"And you're forgetting that the Viet Minh had attacked us first all the way back in 1954 when the country was split. We were trying to ensure stability in Thanh Hoa but they had attacked and outnumbered us, and still lost, not that it matters anyway now, as now they have lost their "capital" too."

[Carlos III]

"Just to set the record straight," Zhu De begins, "The Soviets' deployment takes a few months. This is on top of the fact that they are well away from the frontline."
Eyeing the Soviet delegation suspiciously, he continues, "We do not know why the Soviets have deployed in Vietnam. We certainly do not approve of countries half a world away meddling with soldiers and weapons." He glances at the Americans. "......but here we are."
"The way we see it, you broke your word in 24 hours, for reasons you had not specified beforehand. We are not interested in making any Munich Agreements here. If you cannot keep even the simplest of promises, there is no reason for us to stay."
Peng Dehuai then gets up and leaves, taking the next flight back to China, to his post.

[Frederick the Great]

"Very well then!" Nhu replies. "Guess we've got a deadlock here".

"You might want to really try the "military" option by now" General Vien writes this on another paper and sends it to the American (Tolbethessar).

[Tolbethessar]

Stunned by the surprise deployment of the Soviets and then the strikes made by the Vietnamese government, Dulles just sat there in silence as the delegates of three nations & an organization went onward, argued about moves and counter-moves made by who and for whom.

Shaken back into alertness, Dulles thanked an aide for the jolt. He straightened his tie and his cuffs then stood up, glaring at the South Vietnamese representatives. "I know that the Soviets are certainly up to no good in collaboration with an internationally known criminal, but that's inexcusable..." Dulles spat his words out disgustedly, "What you had done was inexcusable, entirely inexcusable."

"Never mind this conference then," Dulles made a show of brushing some nonexistent dust off his arms, "I apologize but I must egress because this... has been turned into one torrid mess that I can not condone for neither side. Yes, both really. Ugh."

Joining the Chinese in walking out of the conference room, the American delegation walked closely enough to the other group for a whisper to be shared in the hallway.
Dulles spoke quietly to Zhu, "It's not too late for us to broker a separate ceasefire between only us if you would agree to stand out of the way for the final stages of the Vietnamese Reunification, so that it doesn't spill over to the Chinese Civil War and you find your own homeland invaded, plunged well deep into war and ultimately losing many of your cities and provinces."

[Frederick the Great]

Seeing the way the Americans had abandoned them in the negotiations, the Southerners get up and leave the negotiations as well while reconsidering their diplomatic support with America. At this moment, Diem says two lines from Churchill's famous "never surrender" as they're getting up.


"We will ride out the storm of war and outlive the menace of tyranny. If necessary, for years. If necessary, alone".

[Santa Anna]

With their primary adversary and largest ally leaving, Le Duan and Le Duc Tho see that the game is over. With a mumbled farewell to the remaining Soviets, both Les and all the others head out as well.

Upon hearing a comment from the "venerable" Diem, Le Duan responds:

"The only tyranny around here is you and your puppet army. We will crush you in the end, even if it takes us 100 years. Even if the whole world gathers against us."

[Frederick the Great]

"You will crush us ? Try getting Vinh back first, crazy madman!" Diem says as he leaves the room, the first person to leave in the Southern delegation, while General Cao Van Vien glares at Le Duan and the Soviets.